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Frankly, I've had it with spammers.
I'm sick of the tag team game from the "live cricket" drones. One ID posts, another ID flags it as "good stuff." I've clicked on the link, wound up at a page filled with ads.
Other spammers marked as such today:
lobvick
luxurywatches
This morning, three of the top five stories on the front page were cricket spam.
Here's the note I left on one of the cricket spam contributions, and I MEAN IT.
"This item is clearly spam - it appears to have a completely commercial
purpose, and violates NowPublic's Code of Conduct. Members who consistently
post spam risk having their accounts blocked.
This is the top story on NP? I clicked on the link and got to a page filled
with ads. Even worse, now this has become a tag team effort: one person (this
poster or cricklive) posts this spam; then someone else from the same site
flags it as "Good Stuff."
There are NP contributors who work hard to contribute original material,
photos (even from the midst of cyclones), video, audio, or who highlight and
provide original commentary. This hijacking of NP for blatant team spamming
may run up hit counts for the site, but it also turns NP into nothing more
than a spam gateway."
If you find spam/spammers, feel free to list their names here.
We have people who go out in cyclones, people who actually do "crowd powered" contributions--and alas, many good contributors who have disappeared. I think that spam drives good contributors away, and also lowers the impression visitors get of the site.
There are some very good contributors who I miss. They worked hard (mind you, all of us are laboring here for love, not money, other than staff), and added many thoughtful things to the site. There are some very good Guest Editors gone missing, too.
There will be growth cycles for NP; that's a given. But harboring spam, or team-tagging contributions as "good stuff" when better stuff gets ignored isn't a growth cycle, it's a "full stop" cycle.
This is, of course, just my opinion. And it's worth exactly what you paid to read it.
My suggestion: create a "registration" or "foyer" or something capability that segregates material from new users and blocks it from front page status until checked. With Druphal (sp?), do-able. Since NP has expanded its list of paid staff editors, it would be easy to have someone checking that area round-the-clock and quickly releasing valid material while marking up spam or "not quite ready for prime time" material.
It was embarrassing to get up this morning and discover that 3 of the top 5 stories were spam, and that a great deal of the front page was spam. Because NP is open, spammers are exploiting the site.
Time to put a 12-hour hold on new material unless a staff editor or guest editor release it earlier.
Simple.
Most RecentMost Recommended Comments (45)
at 06:03 on December 26th, 2007
p.s. by "new material" I meant material from new contributors. Proven contributors, of course, post at will as we do now.
at 06:28 on December 26th, 2007
PEP, while I have no idea how technically feasible your idea of moderating posts are, it's an interesting one. Maybe have it a requirement that a new user has to be around for at least 24/48 hours before they can post more than a story or two?
I'd say moderate it except what if someone isn't around, or something really huge happens, and I'm sure there are other things I haven't thought of.
As someone who just spent the last hour and a half clearing the site of spam, I'm right with you on this one.
Also cricket sucks.
at 06:37 on December 26th, 2007
Thanks, Rob.
The programming used for this site will allow putting new users into a named area where their stuff can be seen if you go to that area, but it will not show up on the front page.
Putting new users into an area like that for 12 or 24 hours is do-able. As far as missing news, I considered that, too, but I don't think it's a major concern. There's a high correlation between spammers, and also those who don't yet know how to use the system, in new users. Mostly what such an area would do is keep that out of the main flow and allow valid news and commentary to be showcased instead of whatever comes down the pike!
By putting new users into an area called, say "the foyer" or "new contributors" all new material is grouped together. That means that editors can head for that area and move through that area quickly. Valid contributions are released to the main flow quickly. Those that are spam are marked as such; those with problems are marked as such.
That way, the front page doesn't get flooded all the time with spam or material that isn't yet ready for front page featuring.
As far as missing it--news is a 24/7 business. NP has increased its staff; easy enough to rotate duties for 24/7 coverage. Hey, I once had to provide 24/7 coverage for launch events for weeks at a time. Easily doable with the increase in NP staffing.
I appreciate your support on this. I think this is an important problem for NP to solve; in the fast-paced world of today's net, continually presenting spam as news or commentary will rebound against us hard and fast.
at 06:30 on December 26th, 2007
moneemakin6
wenwen528
vikramkamboj (cricketpulse site tag-teamer)
rebroker
at 06:38 on December 26th, 2007
All of the horse or website spammers have been banned and I'm blocking/spamming others. I'll take a look at the ones you've posted.
Rebroker posts some realty news, though I agree it deserves some discussion/watching. I'll talk to the team about him later.
at 07:28 on December 26th, 2007
Maybe this whole convo is pointless.
at 13:23 on December 26th, 2007
I like the staging-area idea. My main concern is how that would affect overall site performance, as member pages/permissions dictate the overall user experience, in terms of refresh rate, flagging, page access, and so forth.
We actually experimented with a moderation queue in the past... it was a very short-lived experiment, during which I received a serious amount of hate-mail! Editors weren't checking the clearance queue quickly enough, which wasn't an issue with true spam, but legit users (dolphins in the tuna net, as it were) were most displeased when their stories were caught in a Pirandello-esque virtual waiting room. Having said that, though, there are more of us now, and we have a better idea of, well, what the heck we're doing...
at 18:57 on December 26th, 2007
Well Jordan, other sites have been doing this for a long time now.
If you simply inform new users of the site's policies, make it clear up front, that their first efforts will be vetted in order to a) reduce spam and b) help them learn to use the site, then that's that.
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Vinnyat 18:52 on December 26th, 2007
Thanks for posting this PEP it's nice to know someone else is concerned about all the ads for cricket sites, I see we still have them on the site and some that do contain some news are just copies of Reuters articles without quoting the source or using the highlight tool.
at 19:00 on December 26th, 2007
Thanks, Vinny. The use of stolen material is a serious one. Along with spamming. But, we've had this conversation numerous times before, in the Forum, in meetings, etc. I'm tired of talking about it.
at 15:26 on December 27th, 2007
http://www.nowpublic.com/sports/watch-free-live-streaming-india-vs-australia-1st-test-match-melbourne-tv-streaming-cricket-live-commentary-sopcast-6#comment-52514
at 09:39 on December 30th, 2007
Wordpress uses a proprietry system called Akismet to handle their spam. I know that they've also allowed (licensed?) Akismet to at least one other web site. It's amazing. I don't get any spam at all there.
~ Swan
at 05:21 on January 1st, 2008
Thanks, I'll check it out and mention it to the team!
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Vinnyat 07:03 on January 1st, 2008
I remember a time when guest editors were regarded as part of the "team".
at 08:39 on January 1st, 2008
I actually meant the team as a whole, what exactly would you like me to say instead?
We have a regular GE meeting (though admittedly sometimes poorly attended) and we're always trying to improve our relations with everyone that helps out here. You're reading the thread and could easily have contributed something, I started as a volunteer and a GE and have always felt very included, so I'm not sure what you mean...
at 09:19 on January 1st, 2008
Rob, I don't understand what you mean by Vinny "could easily have contributed something." He did. On Dec. 26 he notified us that some of the cricket spam had been copied and pasted from copyrighted Reuters articles.
You didn't reply to his concern, or say "thanks," nor did any other member of the staff. The only person who contributed a reply to him was me. (I come back to check on threads for topics that I start, I tend to be pretty conscientious.)
I've already told Jordan the problems I've seen with the new form of GE "meetings."
The fact that they're poorly attended may be something that the team might want to pay attention to.
As I said, I've already discussed this with Jordan, and I don't intend to input any more time and energy on it.
You know, the old wise thing of only cast your seeds on fallow ground.
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Vinnyat 09:43 on January 1st, 2008
Thanks for noticing that I have contributed to this thread already PEP.
at 09:08 on January 2nd, 2008
You're welcome, Vinny. I do try to keep up with the topics I start, although sometimes not immediately!
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ryanat 09:32 on January 1st, 2008
It is New Year's day, we are working with a skeleton staff (Rob and I) and can barely keep the spam off the front page. Please bear with us if we don't reply immediately.
The concern about the cricket is very much on our mind. Please realize and appreciate that our definition of 'spam' historically has been using NowPublic for a commercial purpose - to sell something. Linking to sites with ads has never been the definition as that would disqualify the majority of privately run blogs (even my blog has google ads on it). The cricket 'spam' is of a different sort and we are working through the issue of balancing popular content for which there is a demand and maintaining a high standard of site quality.
Your continued input and diligence on the matter is much appreciated and rest assured we will find a solution which works for everyone.
at 09:40 on January 1st, 2008
After several months, I'm pretty clear on what historically has constituted spam and what (like blogs that actually have content, not just ads or lots of embedded ads that pop up on words and keywords) isn't spam.
No one has asked you to reply immediately. Heck, the only comment I mentioned that was ignored was from Dec. 26, or almost one full week ago. ;}
I'm done on this, Ryan. Staff is better equipped to evaluate and mark spam, and deal with any fallout that comes.
Rose Bowl parade was great, and there's......foootball coming up! Have a nice day, ya'll!
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ryanat 10:01 on January 1st, 2008
Hey, don't forget about the hockey! They are going to all this effort for the Americans.
at 13:56 on January 2nd, 2008
Ryan I have been having problems uploading my hockey story all day. Do you know what's up?
Thanks,
Allen
at 03:06 on January 8th, 2008
The only problem with holding material till released is some of us work hard to get breaking news. IN the climate we work in today... breaking news breakes in minutes not hours. I do my best to be first when I am on site. I ran across something I thought was spam tonight.. I would have liked to be able to mark it as such and NP to pull it. I think we all are fed up with spam. Thankfully my blog has some anti spam filters... It will hod something for revue if it meets certin criteria or is found in other places on the net. Since comments will be original to the content.... it is easy to pick up.
Lets figure a way wranglers and good members can put a temp hold on spam until an editor reviews it for possible deletion. might have made a few mistakes here. I am writing in the dark. Oh how about a spell checker and a grammar tool!
Albert Milliron
at 04:26 on January 8th, 2008
Hi politisite, please refer to my post on Dec. 26 where I explained my idea. Here's one out-take:
"Putting new users into an area like that for 12 or 24 hours is do-able.
As far as missing news, I considered that, too, but I don't think it's
a major concern. There's a high correlation between spammers, and also
those who don't yet know how to use the system, in new users. Mostly
what such an area would do is keep that out of the main flow and allow
valid news and commentary to be showcased instead of whatever comes
down the pike!"
The focus was on new users, not proven users, meaning those who aren't here to spam.
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ryanat 08:31 on January 10th, 2008
One concern that we have had when discussing this idea is that spammers may simply open a myriad of accounts which would make it even more challenging to clean up the site. As it works now, if there are 10 spam articles in one account when the account is blocked all 10 articles are automatically removed, so if there were 10 accounts it would take much longer.
Rest assured, we are working on this though.
at 11:57 on January 10th, 2008
Just one more try on this; then I will hold my peace.
Let's use the Western analogy that the site has going. What you do is to put all new users into a corral. That way, you don't have to saddle up old Paint, go ride the range (hearing the Yoopers and the cowboy of the Iron Range in my own personal jukebox) searching for little dooggies. No need to take the ol' chuck wagon for days of round-up, and eat all them beans.
Get up, get a latte, amble on out to the Corral. There's all the new users. It doesn't matter if someone posts 10 pieces of spam under one account, or 10 pieces scattered among five new counts, because they're all right there, milling around in the corral. Cut 'em loose.
If they come back the next day, they wind up herded right into the corral.
Having once spent many hours over several weeks marking spam and chasing it down, I can say that havin' 'em all rounded up in the Corral, partner, woulda took some hitches outta our get along. Let alone doin' good stuff for that thair environment stuff with less beans,parnders, clearing the air. Why, we could clear us out a lot of windstorms right easy, just build us a lil' ol Corral.
Yessir, buckaroos!
at 11:41 on January 14th, 2008
Besides the poor attempt at Cowboy talk (just kidding), PEP makes a good point but I do have a little twist to it. We already have the capability to look at stories that are "popular good stuff", "most popular", and "just in" . Why not allow GEs the ability to view stories by the amount of time someone has been contributing to the site?
Maybe, going along with PEP's Western talk, there could be a "greenhorn" setting to show us the stories the newest members have written.
I do share PEP's concerns here. The cricket stories, while getting a lot of traffic for NP, really bugged me. Do you guys know if the people who looked at the stories on cricket actually went on and looked at any other stories at NP? If they were only looking at the cricket stories then the boost in traffic might not be worth it.
at 21:27 on January 26th, 2008
I am responding after I have read this 2 weeks agao. That was a great Idea. I think I sent you an email saying so. Just catching up on the boards before bed. I enjoy this site. My site has been a work in progress for 10 years. I know bugs take time to work out. For non spellers like me a spell check would be great. I know, you would think writers can spell, well I can't. I am always fixing mistakes, never happy with structure, you know the usual perfectionist issues. I think you all have done a wonderful job on the spam thing. Much better in a short time. I wish i ad your techies down here. AL
at 12:45 on January 14th, 2008
Thanks for all of your feedback.
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ryanat 10:21 on January 15th, 2008
The cricket situation is getting under control thanks in large part to Jordan's efforts to weed the spammers out from the good contributors. I think the problem seemed worse than usual during the holidays becuase general news activity was lower and the spam was able to make it to the top.
PEP's suggestion does make a lot of sense but would require signficant developer support which we don't have at the moment. They are busy building some news tools which will blow your socks off.